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Short course short races?

2 months 1 week ago #1 by Dougal Scott
Short course short races? was created by Dougal Scott
Today's race took me 1 hour 50 minutes.  It was a great race, and many thanks to John and his team.

But - anyone else interested in doing some short course, short races as part of the mix?  Personally I find nearly 2 hours too long for a race: there's no-one near me as the race goes on, and it just gets dull.  If you have a bad start, or for juniors crewing, or for people at the back of the race - it's a long time to be demoralised and frustrated at the back. 

Classes up and down the land have found that the way to attract and engage more sailors is to run their championships with more, shorter (40-45 minute) races.  

Would anyone else be interested in more of this kind of racing in the Starcross programme?

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2 months 1 week ago #2 by Alistair Glen
Replied by Alistair Glen on topic Short course short races?
I'd be up for it. Today was long enough in the Merlin (ask Moira) but I know there were a lot of very tired legs further back. A few years ago we used to have days when there were three short races across the tide...obviously needs to be timed right during the day. Not sure why they ended.

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2 months 1 week ago #3 by Rod Freer
Replied by Rod Freer on topic course short races?
Hi, yes, I think some of the Gull fleet could be interested in short courses giving more close combat. I have sometimes followed a race but got fed up on the long windless runs or too tired on the windward legs and given up. short triangular course would be more exciting and improve close quarters boat handling skill. Cheers.

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2 months 1 week ago #4 by Mark Elkington
Replied by Mark Elkington on topic Short course short races?
They stopped because turnouts for those "sprint" days began to fall away and a small number of members who didn't like them were quite vocal.

As it was my idea originally as a way to get the people who were doing my "start to race" saturday sessions into racing - I'd certainly like to see something like it return - thought not necessarily exactly the same.

The thing is though - it is quite hard to fit in everything we have traditionally done in a season - so any proposal for resurrecting a different format event on 1 or 2 days a year needs to be clear about what events it would replace.  We struggle to fit in reasonable length series now and so it isn't a case of just replacing a couple of series races.  You might also have noticed that one or two of the less well attended trophy races have not been scheduled  this year.  Inevitably we try and shoehorn events into days with poor tides to try and get everything in and it doesn't always work out well.  So the Sailing Committee need feedback not only on what you want to add - but what you are willing to give up to enable that to happen.  

Now is the time to do it as the SC will be starting the annual programming in the next few weeks.

Mark

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2 months 1 week ago #5 by Ben Cutler-Sharp
Replied by Ben Cutler-Sharp on topic Short course short races?
Personally I prefer short races like we have in our open and Exe regatta. However  when they have happened there's been a huge amount of waiting around between them. especially when there's multiple fleets

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2 months 1 week ago #6 by Olly Turner
Replied by Olly Turner on topic Short course short races?
What is listed as the target length for first on the water in the race box instructions?

I thought our normal length was about 50mins to an hour for first on the water which always seems to work well. 

The last trophy race a few weeks ago was also a monster length and given the increased size of the slow handicap turnout, there's too many people out there for too long. 

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2 months 1 week ago - 2 months 1 week ago #7 by Mark Elkington
Replied by Mark Elkington on topic Short course short races?
The Sailing Instructions say . . . . 

The time limit for the leading boat in a club race is two hours. Boats failing to finish within 30 minutes from the finishing time of the leading boat will be scored DNF (Did Not Finish) without a hearing - this changes RRS 35.

. . . 

The target time for the leading boat to finish in each fleet in a club race is between 50 and 70 minutes. Target times do not apply for the Long Distance race, Pursuit Races or Cruiser Races. Failure to meet the target time will not be grounds for redress - this changes RRS 62.1(a).

OODs remember you have three options in average lap racing to shorten races that are overrunning . . 
  1. Shorten Course
  2. Using Force Finish to finish individual slower boats while the faster boats are on their last lap
  3. Using the "Curtail" option - essentially abandoning the race and taking the results from the last lap that each boat finished
Details are in the Sailing Instructions - please take a look before you do an OOD duty.

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2 months 1 week ago #8 by Paul/Nicky/Greg Bartlett
Replied by Paul/Nicky/Greg Bartlett on topic Short course short races?
Firstly a big thank you to John & the race team for a brilliantly well run race yesterday, great course & so good to have a decent length race. Really enjoyable.
Personally we're not fans of the multiple race days, with the numerous fleet starts we have & the unavoidable waiting around in between. The early finishers tend to come ashore & very tricky to manage. It's even more onerous & a struggle for the OOD as shown in recent months  - we find running 1 race if a big fleet turnout, stressful enough!
For anyone like ourselves having over an hour round trip to get to SYC, if a race is under an hour, it hardly seems worth it!  In the middle of summer, with a nice breeze, it was just nice to be out there & thanks again John & team.

 

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2 months 1 week ago #9 by John Steels
Replied by John Steels on topic Short course short races?
I would certinly prefer 2 'short' races back to back.
This could simply replace some of the standard series race days but be part of that series.

I also prefer shorter laps but more of them as this gives the Race officer more flexibility / ability to get the overall race times closer to the 'ideal' / specified length.

Due to the disparity in boat speed I think consideration should be given to a separate start for the Juniors.

John Steels

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2 months 1 week ago #10 by Rupert Greeves
Replied by Rupert Greeves on topic Short course short races?
I like both types of race (long and short back to back). However, I think the balance is tilted heavily towards the long type so on that basis I'd like more shorter races (both with regard to time and distance).

I agree that it is just nice to get out though.
...my 2p

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2 months 1 week ago #11 by Michael Webster
Replied by Michael Webster on topic Short course short races?
Yesterday was a trophy race so I guess one longish race was appropriate.  However, apart from the pre-start I was out racing for 1 hour 47 minutes, and I wasn't one of the last finishers.  Even the first boat to finish was racng for 1hour 25 minutes.  
Rounding 'salmon pool' during lap three meant that half plate was maximum and almost no plate by lap 4.  
So from my perspective a long race should certainly be no more 80 minutes and a standard race 40 minutes for fast boats and 50 minutes for slower boats such as the Solo/Laser Radial.  
The only advantage yesterday was that there wasn't a queue for the hose and, for once, there wasn't a post race 'forum' on incorrect results!

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2 months 1 week ago #12 by Roy Pryor
Replied by Roy Pryor on topic Short course short races?
I was unable to sail this weekend but when I looked at the results and saw how long the race was I have to admit that I didn't feel too disappointed not to have taken part as I know that I would probably have retired after about an hour. As someone who is regularly near the back of the slow fleet there is really no point in continuing to the bitter end.
A bad start or some disaster during the race usually means that all hope of finishing well up the fleet is lost so the chance to get things right during a second race can make a big difference.
Regarding not being able to fit everything in, surely if you are running 2 races instead of one the series would be completed over fewer days but with the same number of races.
I can appreciate the difficulties of managing the waiting time between races when 4 fleets are involved but think it would be good to try running more back to back short races and then see how people feel.

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2 months 1 week ago #13 by stephen harling
Replied by stephen harling on topic Short course short races?
Sunday's race was an absolutely brilliant course and Eleanor and I enjoyed a lovely sensible breeze. The expanse of the estuary that we have to sail in should be used to the maximum and Mark Elkington"s computer system allows you to shorten the race time for slower handicap boats.
We should focus on what a lovely club and location we have at Starcross.

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2 months 1 week ago - 2 months 1 week ago #14 by Paul/Nicky/Greg Bartlett
Replied by Paul/Nicky/Greg Bartlett on topic Short course short races?
Here here Steve!

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2 months 1 week ago #15 by Robin Charles
Replied by Robin Charles on topic Short course short races?
I think we will continue to program some 2 race days where the tide is suitable next year .
OODs are asked to try to run the races back to back. In practice , a few people coming in , wind changes , administrative delays etc often impinge on this.
These races are the standard length as Mark has indicated in the SIs.
The length of course is always a tricky decision for the OOD. Too short on a breezy day makes it hard to run. Too long when the wind is light and likely to drop puts sensible racing at risk. Again , in practice we tend to get a variety due to different OODs.
My own target as OOD has been to set laps of around 15 mins.for fastish boats.
Robin Charles

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2 months 4 days ago #16 by Jonathan Carr
Replied by Jonathan Carr on topic Short course short races?
Jane and I very much enjoyed the trophy race course it was long..but what great day to be out.

It would be fun to do some more multirace days but it would help if people did not return to shore after early races, slower boats wont be that long on short race courses and it can mean the difference in being able to participate or have to leave for other engagements for some.

 

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