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New Years Day race

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5 months 1 day ago#1by Ralph Singleton
New Years Day race was created by Ralph Singleton
I have attched a pictorial view of my one lap!!! 
New years day RS800 course.jpg
 
New years day RS800 course.jpg
 
New years day RS800 course.jpg

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    5 months 1 day ago#2by stephen harling
    Replied by stephen harling on topic New Years Day race
    In the race box we watched you sail the wrong course and you admit you did therefore you're unfortunately disqualified

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    5 months 22 hours ago#3by Ralph Singleton
    Replied by Ralph Singleton on topic New Years Day race
    Hi Steve

    Yes i sailed round Church on round one the wrong way (to port) , which, as you say, i admit to (and why initially i did not challenge the results) but as the diagram shows and lucy's garmin tracking confirms i sailed round Church to starboard on the supsequent roundings and therefore sailed the correct course for 1 lap only !!!. As Mark has pointed out there is no case history hear although the cantankerous side of me is tempted to create some !!! (i am not going to). The only point of uncertainty in my mind is how the unwinding process works . Its not clear , in my mind, how the RRS view the subsequent course after the first mistake is made? (i.e rounding Church to port). If i am right and you can disregard where i went subsequently excepting that i did in efffect (as the diagram shows) unwind myself correctly round Church then i did one lap. If the RRS suggest that i would have had to unwind the whole course (or approx 2 1/2 laps in reverse) then i would be wrong. So yes you have disqualified (NSC) me and unless i had protested at the time by the letter of the rules that is it . I suspect if you felt my argument was correct then you could as RO have the ability to reinstate me by "correcting" the results as happens on many occasions for various reasons ( timing errors etc). For me this is purely an interesting conversion about the interpreation of "sailing the course" as described by the RRS and given the evidence i have presented (showing the correct unwinding precedure in my view)

    Regards
    Ralph

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    4 months 4 weeks ago#4by crispin Taylor
    Replied by crispin Taylor on topic New Years Day race
    Afternoon Ralph
    See AI response... I'll ask sailing committee to take a view at the January meeting and update you.

    Under the Racing Rules of Sailing (RRS), if a boat has sailed the wrong course, it can
    correct the error by "upwinding" or returning along its original track to the point where the error occurred and then sailing the course correctly (known as the "string rule").
    The "String Rule" (RRS Rule 28.2)
    Rule 28.2 allows a boat to correct any errors in sailing the course, provided she has not crossed the finishing line to finish. The rule is often explained using the "string rule" analogy:

    Imagine a string unspooling from your boat as it sails the course.
    If you sail the wrong course (e.g., pass the wrong side of a mark), the string will not follow the required course correctly.
    To correct the error, you must return along the exact path you sailed after the error (effectively "winding up" the string) until you have canceled the mistake.
    Once the error is canceled, you can resume the correct course from that point and continue racing.

    Key Considerations

    Timeliness is Key: Correcting an error immediately after it happens is the most effective way to stay competitive. If a significant distance is sailed on the wrong course, returning to correct it may mean you cannot finish competitively.
    Retiring: If the error is too great to correct in a timely manner, the skipper generally retires from the race by notifying the Race Officer.
    Finishing: A boat is only considered to have finished legally if it has sailed the course in accordance with the definition in the RRS. If a boat crosses the finish line without having sailed the correct course and does not return to correct its error, it should be scored accordingly (e.g., Disqualification (DSQ) or Did Not Finish (DNF), depending on the situation and if a protest is filed).

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    4 months 4 weeks ago#5by Ralph Singleton
    Replied by Ralph Singleton on topic New Years Day race
    Agreed. One issue here of course being a handicap race where avearge laps can be used then timing is less of an issue?

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    4 months 4 weeks ago#6by David Lee
    Replied by David Lee on topic New Years Day race
    Hi Ralph

    I'm not sure that the use of average laps makes any difference - individual boats cannot choose which laps do or do not count after they finish.

    Crispin's AI summary matches my understanding of the string rule. I suggest that a PC would determine the following facts found in a hypothetical redress hearing -

    1). You did not sail the correct course on round 1.
    2). You did not unwind the round 1 error as per the string rule i.e. the subsequent rounds are not relevant.
    3). There was no error or omission in the actions of the Race Officer or his team.

    So I think the likely outcome is that the PC would dismiss the redress request and the result would stand.

    Merlin Rocket 3779 The Angels' Share
    Merlin Rocket 3546 Gilt Complex

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    4 months 4 weeks ago#7by Ralph Singleton
    Replied by Ralph Singleton on topic New Years Day race
    Hi All

    Thanks for your reponses. I have checked this out with Martin Smethers at the RYA (one of the senior judges and rules experts) and he agrees with me that in effect i sailed one lap. He agrees with me that once i have passed the wrong side of Church where i sail subsequently is largely irrelevant excepting of course that i did unwind myself correctly (by going round Charch to starboard twice) as set out in the diagram. So had i chosen to protest the RO or asked for the result to be amended i would have been entitled to last place !!! I am not fussed by that though as its always been a point of understanding the interpretation of what "sailing the course" means and that i had correctly unwound myself round Church. Anyway there you have it and hopefully we have all learnt something including that AI is not always right !!! !! Regards Ralph

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    4 months 4 weeks ago#8by Mark Elkington
    Replied by Mark Elkington on topic New Years Day race
    Clearly the sensible outcome of all these discussions is that Ralph SHALL be required to lay out a trail of string for all future races so that we can be sure that he has indeed sailed the course.  Do you want me to update the SIs :-)

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    4 months 4 weeks ago#9by Ralph Singleton
    Replied by Ralph Singleton on topic New Years Day race
    More like ask Race Officer to check i know what the course is but then that might give me an unfair advantage . Mind you it does help the fleet if the fastest boat in a handicap fleet does know the corerct course as many will follow him or her.

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